Embracing Purpose and Passion in Leadership with Diane Allen

In this enlightening episode of "Unlock Your Peak Potential," host Danita Cummins welcomes the inspiring Diane Allen to explore the transformative synergy between leadership and the flow state. Diane, a mother, lead violinist, and keynote speaker, shares her personal journey of discovering and harnessing flow to enhance both her personal and professional life.

The conversation highlights the parallels between parenting and leadership, emphasizing the importance of adaptability, self-awareness, and aligning with personal purpose and strengths to achieve peak performance. Diane offers heartfelt stories and expert insights into recognizing flow state indicators, such as losing track of time and experiencing effortless creativity.

🎙️ Episode Highlights:

• Discover the key indicators of the flow state and how to identify them in your life.
• Learn how to align with your personal purpose and strengths for peak performance.
• Explore the parallels between parenting and leadership and the adaptability required for success in both.
• Gain practical strategies to replicate your flow state triggers for enhanced creativity and fulfillment.
• Hear Diane’s heartfelt stories of overcoming pressure and accessing flow through music and emotional expression.

Listeners will walk away empowered with actionable strategies to overcome challenges, unlock creativity, and achieve fulfillment. This episode is a must-listen for leaders, creatives, and anyone looking to enrich their lives and elevate their leadership capabilities through the art of flow.

Tune in to embark on this journey of self-discovery, purpose, and leadership growth!

Want to learn more from Diane and stay inspired by her incredible journey and insights?

🌐 Visit her website: Diane Allen
📱 Follow her on social media:

• LinkedIn: Diane Allen
• Instagram: @DianeAllen
• Facebook: Diane Allen

Free Gift: Flow Essentials: Tools to Unlock Your Best Self (Guide + Videos)

https://tinyurl.com/flowstategift

Diane’s Book:

Flow: Unlock Your Genius, Love What You Do

https://www.amazon.com/Flow-Unlock-Your-Genius-Love/dp/1737855623/

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Chapters

• 0:06 Unlocking Leadership Flow and Resilience
• 13:33 Exploring Flow State and Peak Performance
• 18:52 Identifying the Flow State Triggers
• 24:14 Unlocking Flow Strategy with Purpose
• 37:55 Discovering Personal Flow Triggers
• 41:40 The Lifelong Journey of Self-Discovery

Transcript

00:06 - Danita Cummins (Host)
Hey friends, welcome to Entrusted to Lead, the podcast where faith-driven leaders gather to explore how to lead with purpose, grow in resilience and impact their organizations with a vision grounded in values. I'm your host, danita Cummins, and I'm glad you're here. Each week, we dive into leadership strategies, inspiring stories and practical tips to help you overcome challenges, build healthy teams and lead at the forefront of your organizations and your lives. So today, I want you to grab your favorite cup of coffee, settle in, and we are going to explore the ways to get into your flow with author and speaker Diane Allen. Let's get started. 

00:41
Doing things alone is entirely overrated. We all need a community to thrive, and that's why I'm part of an online community of writers and speakers, podcasters and entrepreneurs called Cult Creatives, and I love it. In the years since I joined this community, I've launched new ideas and I finally executed the dreams that sat on the shelf for years, seriously, and I was able to do this because of the outstanding group of mentors, exceptional training and encouraging mastermind groups with my new friends who did and continue to give me invaluable feedback. Oh, and not to mention all the fun, because we have had lots and lots of fun. Have you ever said, I want to write a book, or do you want to use your voice for the exciting world of podcasting? If so, cult Creatives is your best resource for up-to-the-minute industry training, expert advice, live coaching and peer support. 

01:36
Like no other Best-selling authors and speakers, Alli Worthington and Lisa Whittle lead this community with a no-competition mission and it shows so. Join my friends and I in the Called Creatives community. Head to my show notes, www.danitacumminscom/podcast and click the link to get all the details to join. I promise you won't regret it. I look forward to seeing you in the community and watching you grow. Hey, friends, welcome back to another episode of Interested to Lead. I am super excited today to be joined by Diane Allen. She's here to discuss her new book Flow, unlock your Genius and Love what you Do, but she's got so many other tools and nuggets of information and wisdom, not to mention how to cook a moist turkey, because it's the day after Thanksgiving as we're recording this episode, so I'm just super excited to hear her insights about leadership and her passion for how we can bring together both of those things to become more effective leaders. So, Diane, thanks so much for joining me today. How are you? 

02:37 - Diane Allen (Guest)
I'm doing great. I love the fact that you tried to say other, but the word mother came out because motherhood is leadership, right? Yes, I have led in so many different ways in my life as a mother. As the lead violinist of an orchestra, I've led hundreds of violin students and now, as I go and travel, I do keynote speaking for corporations. Now I'm leading large audiences and I love that. It's like the mother of all leadership right. 

03:10 - Danita Cummins (Host)
Yes, that's so good. That could be its own podcast right there. I say that all the time. I say leadership is exactly like parenting, other than being a parent. I don't think there's anything in my life to this point where I've experienced the great weight of it and the responsibility of it, and I think we don't often give that its space, just like motherhood we don't really give. 

03:32
I work a lot with moms in pregnancy centers and stuff, so I have that kind of front row seat at a new mom and I'm just kind of like, no, this is so important what you're doing, and giving them the grace or maybe acknowledging the weight of what they carry. So I think that the same thing just leadership is a weight that we carry and I think we don't often get to turn around to somebody and say, hey, this is really heavy, I don't really know what I'm doing, I'm having a hard time. So that's why I'm super excited for you to come on today. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? I mean, you just jumped right into your mom and you're the lead violinist, which I think is the coolest thing ever but do you want to just give a little bit of background about kind of how you came to be where you are today. 

04:09 - Diane Allen (Guest)
Sure, yeah, the other thing I just have to go with the motherhood thread a little bit further is our kids are in different ages in their lives. We have to lead differently, and I noticed that especially when my son was very young. He would always be like six weeks ahead of me. He would change and grow and learn, and then I would have to kind of catch up. Oh, how do I have to lead now? Super interesting, I think. 

04:31
And now, as a 27-year-old, I'm leading in a completely different way. So it's quite the journey. So, yeah, I'm holding up a picture of myself and the orchestra I used to play in, and this picture is like as if you're on the ceiling looking down on top of the orchestra. So the lead violinist is second in command to the conductor and basically, whatever he would do, I would have to basically translate that in a way that the orchestra players would understand. And so, however well I did that day whether it was poorly or amazingly right that would have a ripple effect throughout the orchestra. So I always had to be at my top of my game. 

05:11
And we're playing music, right? So people expect a transformational experience, right? So I always had to get into the music, and getting into the music is a musician's version of the flow state, which is an optimal state of mind when we feel our best and perform our best, and it is neuroscientifically proven. We can go through all of the neuroscience of what flow state is Going with. The flow is a passive mindset. It's like kind of relaxing and going with it. Being in flow is a mind state, and so that is the thought leadership that I have with regards to everything with regards to happiness and fulfillment, with regards to peak performance, with regards to leadership, everything under this state of flow. So that's basically a little bit of my background and how I came to the content that I now deliver to help people to really know how to lead themselves first in order to lead others. 

06:19 - Danita Cummins (Host)
Yeah, that's so good. So do you want to share a little bit about how you got to the place where you wanted to write a book? Where did that book idea come from? Or that heart for you to say, okay, now, in this season of my life, I think this book is something that I want to offer the world. 

06:33 - Diane Allen (Guest)
It's not a very glamorous reason, but as a business person, somebody who is self-employed and runs their own business, and in the speaking world, people do ask you if you have a book. It is part of the package, and to have your thought leadership in a book form, we are so bombarded by stimuli. Yes, you could give a really memorable keynote, but then how can you leave people with the follow-up steps? And that's where the book comes in, where people could leave with a tangible thing that takes them to the next level from the keynote and is something they could remember, and so that was a big part of it. 

07:15
I also use the book in a lot of different ways. I use it to introduce myself. I use it to get more business. I mail it to people who hire people like me and they read it first to see if it's something they want to do. I use it as negotiation. It's a part of negotiation, and what's really interesting and touches me to the heart the most is yeah, you can have a Q&A during a keynote, but not too many people want to ask their question in front of a room full of people, but if I'm standing at a book table to sign books, people will come up and share with me really intimately and ask questions, and it's like having that book and having a table to sign a book that somebody might want to have. Right, it really connects us at a whole new level. 

08:04 - Danita Cummins (Host)
Yeah, and I think, just as you were talking about the fact that you've taught all these students over the years, right, like you're saying, you just have something tangible that they can hold in their hand and they can take home, and they can pick it up a hundred times if they need to and just go back to it, and there's such a legacy of learning in writing that I think sometimes we skip over to. There is the business aspect, but I think, at a deeper level, what I'm seeing, at least in my own journey, and why I appreciate it, is those books that I have post-it notes in and I have little stickies on the side because I'm like, oh, I can go back to this time and time again. I think that's such a great gift that you offer the world and it is an arduous journey, so hats off to you. I know that your book launched a few months ago, but I know, you know yeah. 

08:48
Yeah. 

08:48
Your book just came out. It did, I did. Yes, I'm ready to take vacation now. It was so much. But to the point of the book table conversation, just like if we could share that to others maybe who are listening, maybe they want to write a book or they want to. Should I do this thing? Should I step out there in faith? Should I put myself out there? Which is scary. 

09:06
I got invited to speak at a Christian K-12 school recently, just like last Friday, and it was the best time, because the little kids were like, why did you write a book? And I was like, oh my gosh, you're like seven. But they were asking these questions and it was the neatest thing. And, like you said, after I was done speaking, they came around the table and they were looking at it and they had all these other questions that they wanted to ask. How neat is that? It's like a book in your hand, but it breaks down that barrier. So then they're kind of like, well, I do actually have questions or I am struggling with something. Is there? Maybe can I talk to you for a minute? 

09:40 - Diane Allen (Guest)
So yeah, I think that's so good, there's a Yale professor she's now retired who contributed to my book. 

09:50
And when we were talking through the conversations that we had with her contribution and just touching base and having conversations about writing books, she said I'm retired now and if I hadn't written the two books that I wrote tired now and if I hadn't written the two books that I wrote, I think I would feel like it never happened right now. And I think that I learned the hard way that if you don't acknowledge your own accomplishments, it is as if they didn't happen. You just keep doing more and more and more and more and more. But when you actually stop and acknowledge that you've done something, but when you actually stop and acknowledge that you've done something, it makes it real. I think brene brown talks about that like when you can actually label things that it makes it a real thing. And so she said that thank goodness I wrote those books because now that I'm retired I could see that if I hadn't, I would feel like what did I do all that for? 

10:40 - Danita Cummins (Host)
yeah, and it's a very tangible thing, like you said, because we get busy with the days of our lives. I'm sure I can't imagine how many I dare to say thousands of songs that you played. You know what I mean. I just thought about that when you were saying you have to be prepared every day. When you come in and you're leading, you're translating for the rest of the team and I thought how many days a week do you play as a professional violinist in an orchestra? What does that look like for you? I mean, do you play every day, or what does that life look like for you? 

11:07 - Diane Allen (Guest)
I left the orchestra 10 years ago and between oh gosh, it was about 30 years, I think that I was constantly playing in orchestras. It was all orchestra work and you do have a music score in front of you. It's not that you have to memorize everything like you see performing artists do when they're giving their own music and their own concerts. So there is that ability to be able to read and to perform, and I think that it's hard. I can't even quantify it. My husband, who's also played in the orchestra with me we stopped counting after we played a thousand concerts and that was a long time ago, so I would say it's probably like 3,000 at this point. It's just a lot, a lot of time on stage. So, yeah, right now I've got this really crazy looking violin. It's like this shiny copper color. It's an electric violin. I'll share that story later, how I got from classically trained music to playing electric violin. It's a story of losing my flow and falling apart and then refinding myself in a new way. 

12:18 - Danita Cummins (Host)
So anyways, Okay, Well, we'll hold that for another second. So do you want to define what flow is? You talked a little bit about that before, but do you want to define it from the perspective of, like, why you believe it's so crucial for leaders you know to find that state in their personal and professional lives? Like what, what element of that do you find that's so important? 

12:38 - Diane Allen (Guest)
Yeah, I think if I just go through the science of it, I think people will be like oh, if I just go through the science of it, I think people will be like oh. That's why I need to do this, because the flow state is this optimal state of mind when we feel our best and we perform our best Energetically. It's how we lead, and so the neuroscience of flow is such that there's a cocktail of peak performance hormones that get released into our system and they optimize our mind to get into flow. The neocortex amps up dramatically increasing learning speed. The prefrontal cortex temporarily shuts down, which basically it shuts down the inner critic and the fight or flight response. So we get more relaxed and we're not in our own way with our inner self-talk, and so there's a number of things that become available to us when we're in flow, like creativity and productivity and peak performance. 

13:33
So how do you know when you're in flow? There's a few key indicators of being in flow. So wait, before I do that. I said that there's a cocktail of peak performance hormones. Oh, wait, before I do that. I said that there's a cocktail of peak performance hormones. Those hormones are an endomidate endorphins, dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine and because of this we experience euphoria. We experience motivation, peak performance and happiness. 

13:59
So how do you know? When you're in flow? Well, you lose all sense of time. You love what you're doing, right. We've all experienced that. You lose sense of time, you lose a sense of self, which is kind of a funny thing to say, but that's when that inner critic and your fight or flight response is turned off. That's why people find flow so liberating. You have ideas and insights coming in from out of the blue. When that prefrontal cortex temporarily shuts down, it just allows space for things to come in. Have you ever gotten more done in 30 minutes than you had in the last three days? Yeah, okay, that is flow and action. Because you get into this sense of ease. Things are just clicking and coming together right. 

14:36
Then, when you're in a negative feedback loop whatever it is that you're doing, whether it's work or whatever it's draining you, it's getting you into this negative state. But when you're working in flow, like as a violinist, the more you get into it, the more you get out of it. The more you get out of it, the more you get into it. That's a positive feedback loop, and when you are in flow, you get into that positive feedback loop and it just lifts you up and up and up and up and up. And then the last key indicator of being in flow is that you're experiencing more meaning, joy and fulfillment. 

15:08
And for those of you who are Adam Grant nerds, he is an organizational psychologist and during the pandemic he wrote this article in the New York Times. He also gave a TED Talk about this and he talked about the mental health spectrum and how, halfway between depression and flourishing, there's a midway point where you're fine but you're not fine. You're functional but you can't get motivated, you're just kind of blah. And that's what we were kind of feeling about midway through the pandemic. And so, according to Adam Grant, the key to go from languishing to flourishing is to get into your flow state. Okay, so the question was why should we even bother with this? Why do we want to know about this? 

15:57
And so, if you are looking to increase your focus, to be more productive and to do it in a way that refuels you, that positive feedback loop, if you are stuck, like your ideation is like really kind of jammed up, yeah, getting in flow is what really brings in those new ideas and insights, and oftentimes, as a violinist, I'll give you like perfect example. I could practice and practice and practice right here in my room, but when I'm on stage I'm always going to play better, and so when we're in flow, we oftentimes exceed what we think we are personally capable of. That's that peak performance aspect. So, yes, you can, purpose is so important in doing work that doesn't drain you. But when you're in flow, it's not just purpose, it is being in your signature strengths, it is experiencing peak performance and it is doing it in a way that really brings happiness. So you know, purpose is a part of being in flow. But so those are some. Do you think those are some good reasons to get into flow? 

16:57 - Danita Cummins (Host)
Yeah, I do. 

16:58
I think it's a beautiful I will say baseline description, because you're like oh, the neuroscience of it and there's all these hormones and these things are happening in your body. 

17:06
And I was just having a great conversation last night, actually at dinner, with a good friend of ours and we were talking about our subconscious mind and how we don't know the things that are going on, right, when you talk about this holistic body, and so when you're in that funk and you can't get going, you can't get moving, you can't, kind of, like you said, get in your flow. There's so many more things going on in the human body than I think we really give it credit for sometimes, right, and so that's what I just thought was like you're talking about unlocking creativity, like in the hormones that are associated with that, like there's so much more to it when you, instead of just, I guess, beating yourself up is what I'm thinking right now you know the person that's like I should have seen that coming, I should have known this, and you're kind of like there's so much going on, you know in your body and your brain and your the chemistry, the all the hormones, the things. 

17:56 - Diane Allen (Guest)
So that's just what I thought, like it's fascinating to me to have some self-compassion instead of say what's wrong with me. 

18:05 - Danita Cummins (Host)
Yeah, Like how come I can't just do it? You just need to practice more, you know, or whatever. You just need to get out there and do it and work harder. And it's not always true, you know. 

18:11 - Diane Allen (Guest)
I mean, like you're saying that's because the way I describe that is in a world of do, do, do, do, do. The question is is how are you being when you're doing? And the way I describe? We should go into the steps of how I describe how to get into flow, because it really hones in on your signature strengths and your own sense of purpose, and I know that, whether you're working for yourself or you're working for others or not working at all, you're leading your family right. You could say you have a mission statement with the values and the things that are really important to you, but what about your own? I guess we could call it personal brand of purpose? 

18:52
As I mentioned earlier, as I played in the orchestra, I always had to be at the top of my game and I found, after struggling this for years, you know, like I would under pressure, I would crumble, I couldn't play my best, but I discovered that if I could access my flow state, I could always feel really self-assured and that I got this. So it became something that I wanted to figure out how to replicate for myself. And after a concert, when I had been on stage like we had talked about 3000 times, right, I took it for granted, I had a concert where I didn't play so well and it freaked me out. I could not get into the music, and so that was the night that I sat down and I reverse engineered how I uniquely get into flow. So flow falls under the umbrella of positive psychology, and positive psychology is all about taking a look at what's working well, reverse engineering it so you can create more of that goodness in your life. 

19:50
It's the opposite of when you've got some deep-seated pain and you're seeing a psychologist, you're trying to analyze it and figure it out. Right, it's like the complete other end of the spectrum. It's like what's working well, now, let's figure that out so we can recreate it. So when I was sitting on the couch that night, I was like okay, so I'm holding up my picture here. It's got three words where, what and why. And so the first question is is where? Where are you when you get into the flow state the most? So, danita, if you think of all of those key indicators, right, losing sense of time, sense of self, ideas and insights coming in from out of the blue, things coming together with the sense of ease, the positive feedback loop, and then experiencing more meaning, joy and fulfillment. So if you could just tell us where no-transcript where you are, when that happens the most. 

20:42 - Danita Cummins (Host)
The first thing that comes to mind is my keyboard. I write songs and music and that's the place where I can look up and it's been like three hours and I'm like where am I? 

20:52 - Diane Allen (Guest)
And I had no idea you did that. That is so cool. Okay, where's your keyboard? 

20:57 - Danita Cummins (Host)
It's right here beside me. 

20:59 - Diane Allen (Guest)
Oh, it's right beside you, Is that your office office? But it also has your keyboard it is. Oh man, I love that. 

21:06 - Danita Cummins (Host)
It that your office office, but it also has your keyboard. It is, oh man. I love that it was in my bedroom, but I moved it out here so I can get up and walk away from my desk when I'm doing spreadsheets, when I don't feel like I'm in my flow, and I can come over and you know, kind of like relax. 

21:16 - Diane Allen (Guest)
You are like so way ahead of this process here, so this is perfect, okay. So where you are is where it's like super simple, where you are is you're in your office and you're at your keyboard. Okay, what you're doing. This is a two step process. Okay, you're writing songs, right? Yes, that's what you're doing on the outside. On the outside, yeah. Now the question is is what are you doing on the inside? And so I want to give you some examples and then you can kind of use those examples to think for yourself, right? 

21:52
So my dad, where he is, is in the kitchen. What he's doing on the outside is cooking. What he's doing on the inside is usually he never used a recipe. He was always just like experimenting and tinkering. I would say experimenting and tinkering and creating. Okay, that's what he was doing on the inside. All right, and I'll share with you why later. 

22:14
Where I am is on stage, what I'm doing is I'm speaking and playing the violin right, that's what I'm doing on the outside, but on the inside I'm sharing. It feels the exact same. I was so lucky that my son let me read out loud to him until he was 13 years old, so we spent a lot of quality time together and that idea of sharing the message and sharing the experience, just like when I was reading out loud to him. That's what it feels like when I'm doing this podcast, right? It feels like when I'm standing on stage, right? So that's what I'm doing on the inside. Give you one more example A lot of people, where they are, is in their office. What they're doing on the outside, like you said, is working on an Excel spreadsheet, but on the inside, you could be visualizing, you could be strategizing, you could be. One woman told me she does collaboration on Excel spreadsheets. That meant something to her. So does that help you to give you some ideas of when you're writing the songs? What are you doing on the inside? 

23:12 - Danita Cummins (Host)
Sure, yeah, I think for me it's interesting because I did when I went to do my audio book. The production engineer was very kind and we talked about that. But it's kind of like two things. I think you're right. There's creating and designing, but then for me also for writing, and I know this for book writing and for songwriting. You know what I mean. The writing, the aspect of writing, for me a lot is it's lamenting and worshiping and it's a piece of that piece together. So it's like the action of it. Back to this mind, body, soul, spirit, from the place of like I might be writing words or clicking around music on the keyboard and it might not ever turn out to anything that anyone will ever hear, but there's like a soul, spirit thing that's going on. You know where I'm like releasing things and for me you know that's what. 

24:00 - Diane Allen (Guest)
I can see Lamenting, worshiping and releasing Okay, that's what I can see. Lamenting, worshiping and releasing Okay, those were the words that popped out the most because they end in ing. It's like an activity Going with the flow is passive. Being in flow is very active. Now I just have to ask you people have their own definition for what words mean, and I would like to know what your definition of lamenting is, because mine is very sorrowful, so I'm very curious to know what yours is. 

24:28 - Danita Cummins (Host)
I do think it is the releasing of grief, loss For me in the last couple of seasons. A very good friend of mine just passed away a couple months ago and I was with her through hospice and she had stage four cancer and she died and we were there. I was there the day she died, with her and her mom. So there is a grieving. My dad died five years ago and we lost four family members last year. So there's a great grief and a great and I told my husband I was like I think there are traditions and our spirits that we don't fully understand, how we grieve as a society or how we grieve as culture and just like the parts that you know we need to let go of and let that be a normal flow of our life, right Like the cycle of our life. 

25:12
It's a beautiful flow but we never want pain. We do everything we can possibly do to not have it, which is protection our mind. But there is an actual process of it. I think, like you're saying, there's a natural flow. So for me in this season I've seen that when I sit and write, I allow myself the freedom to like my body's holding on to things and it just has the space to go. 

25:37 - Diane Allen (Guest)
Releasing. When you couple that with lamenting, you really opened my eyes to like a whole new way to think of things. So, yes, okay, so we'll just put those three together Lamenting. What you're doing on the inside is that lamenting, releasing, pairing and then worshiping. Yeah, oh, my goodness Woo. Now the third question. So what we just identified is how you uniquely get into flow, just so you know. Okay, that is your entry point, that is your unique entry point. Now, why is that so meaningful? And so we've heard that question a gazillion times. What's your why? When I'm thinking of why, I'm always thinking of the things that are so far above ourselves that they pull the best out in us. It could be peace and love and joy and well-being and self-actualization. Whatever it is for you, okay, equality, right. So you ask yourself why is it so important to you? What is the meaning for you? Why is it so meaningful to go through that process of releasing, worshiping, lamenting? 

26:43 - Danita Cummins (Host)
Yeah, I think in this season and it's not been my whole life I've loved music and sang since I was a little girl. My husband said when he married me it was like being married to Mary Poppins. He was like this is a lot, you sing a lot. So that's always been kind of my form of expression. Music has always been a natural form of expression for me and singing has always been a natural form of expression. 

27:03
But in this season I think and I've probably been writing songs for about 10 years, so for a long time I say a long time the why of it is just it does open up different pieces of me, like my brain. I mean, it forces me to learn something. That's hard. So I'm trying to learn how to play music, which is really hard, but it also just gives me this great sense of peace and joy in the season. And then when I get done to your point, I come out the other side and I'm like look at that, I wrote this whole song and I show it to my kids or whatever. And they're like mom, that's amazing, how did you do that? And I'm like I don't know. I literally don't know. I just sat down. 

27:37 - Diane Allen (Guest)
You're in flow, peace and joy. So what I call a flow strategy. Let me just review for the listeners, because we just kind of took a really deep dive just now. The three questions are where, what and why. Where are you? What are you doing on the outside? What are you doing on the inside? Why is it so meaningful? Because when you can define what you're doing on the inside and why it's so meaningful for you, you have defined your own unique entry point into flow with purpose. What are you actively doing? What is your purpose? So we're taking a look at signature strengths. A better word would be like what makes you tick or what's your secret sauce? We all have our own and I believe that when you can define this for yourself, you own it, because now you can recreate it. 

28:22
Okay, so you're having a busy day. Maybe you're not feeling as well, maybe a lot's going on and you sit down, you're playing the keys and you want to write music and it's like feels clunky and you're grappling with yourself. Kind of like you said earlier, what's wrong with me? We don't know what's going on inside of ourselves, but yet we get upset with ourselves. You can set the stage and I love that you brought the keyboard into your office because now we could tie that in. Let's say, you've got writer's block, maybe you're I don't know you're writing something, maybe you're writing a speech, or you're writing a blog post or whatever. You know social media, whatever, what. If you just turn around and sit at the piano and play a little bit and then go back and write, that could be like a huge gateway for you. How does that land with you? 

29:05 - Danita Cummins (Host)
Yeah, that's exactly why I brought it in. I mean to that point of just surrounding myself with things that bring me joy in like the last season and I was kind of like making those spaces and I work at home now full time. So, like you were saying, that post pre-COVID we all came home and then everybody had to shuffle around and so it's taken me a few years of finding that space. But then just with intention, like I put my chair by the window so I can look out the window and sometimes when I'm getting overwhelmed I just go sit down at the chair and look out the window and it does. It just opens up, like you said, so much more freedom and peace in my mind of my daily things. So that's so good, it's so good. Thank you, You're welcome. 

29:46 - Diane Allen (Guest)
So I have a worksheet that walks people through their flow strategy. It's in my book, but I also have a handout for people today so we can talk about that later. The number one killer of flow let's talk about that are interruptions, and that's why I made this door hanger. It looks like the kind of door hanger that you put on a hotel do or interruptions, and that's why I made this door hanger. It looks like the kind of door hanger that you put on a hotel doorknob and it says do not disturb, I'm in my flow. Interruptions are the number one killer of flow. At my last speaking engagement, people were grabbing these like hotcakes. They all wanted them and a lot of them worked at home and they wanted to be able to like, have something to say hey, I'm working right now and not interrupt me. And when you are interrupted because interruptions are always going to happen right, when you have a system to get yourself back on track, when you define your flow strategy, you're going to shorten your period of time of getting back onto whatever that train of thought was. You know, as long as I'm talking about practical use of your flow strategy, another one is to get outside of your comfort zone. 

30:49
So I had, as a violinist, I never had to go networking. But when I was changing into professional speaking, I had to go networking. And I was such a fish out of water I couldn't believe it. I walked into this really vibrant room. It was packed with people but they were all standing in circles. I'm like, oh my gosh, is this like middle school, all over again? And so I was just feeling kind of awkward and I was thinking, oh my gosh, how can I get myself over this? And so I just found myself kind of hovering behind a circle and eavesdropping and somebody said something and I had a story that related to it, and it felt to me that I had to be assertive and kind of elbow my way into the conversation. But I pushed myself to share the story. It probably didn't seem like that to other people, right? They probably thought like, oh, she's just telling a story. But, like to me, I felt like I had to really stick myself out there. I was out of my comfort zone. I shared the story. So here's what happened. The first thing is, is I felt like myself, right, I'm sharing the message, sharing the experience, just like when I read out loud to my son right. Second thing is you know, when one person shares a story and then somebody else has one, somebody else has one. That's way more interesting at a networking event than people standing around saying who they are and what they do. And then I'm not kidding, like no joke, I actually ran out of business cards that night. It worked like a charm. Now, I had no idea. I didn't figure it out until later. I was like, oh my gosh, I was using my flow strategy for performing and speaking on stage and I was just doing it in a different setting and it got me tapped in. So another practical application. And we do need to talk about leadership as well. But let's just finish the interruptions conversation. 

32:34
So I had a time in my life where my son was at the height of his teenage rebellion, my mom had Alzheimer's and I found myself sitting on stage playing a Beethoven symphony without any emotion. I felt like a piece of cardboard. I was like what is wrong with me? Like you were saying, we don't know what's going on inside us. So I it's really confusing time. I felt like that part of me that used to make me tick was completely shut down. 

33:02
I ended up taking care of my mom for eight years and I took a year's leave from the orchestra, my violin students started leaving me for other teachers. It was just like what is going on? Everything was going upside down. I thought, okay, I guess I'm done with the violin. That's what I thought. So what I did was I put it down. I sold it. I had a gorgeous antique violin. I sold it. I sold my entire music collection. I was like, okay, I'm done, I'm going to focus on this speaking, whatever we're moving on. 

33:37
But it was hard work. It was so draining taking care of my mom and my son. He flew the coop as soon as high school, so I was nervous about him. But about six months into him being out of the house, I realized he wasn't repeating his mistakes and I was like, you know what? I'm not going to worry, because if you're not learning from your mistakes, then you need to worry. Right. But I saw him making mistakes and learning and I was like, okay, I'm just going to let that go. 

34:05
But anyways, in this time it was a few years and I was sitting in a documentary. It was at a movie theater. It was a documentary about a group of counterculture artists and they were questioning everything. Who's to say this is art. Who's to say this isn't art? Who's to say this art's valuable and this art is not valuable? Right, they were looking at building museums. They're like who's to say we need to have leaders. I mean, they were like questioning everything and for some reason I found it riveting and like it really got me thinking and that night I couldn't sleep. 

34:38
I, for some reason, I could feel the power of the violin coming back into my life. And so in the morning called my friend, janet, and if you know Janet, you'd know that number one, she'd have a spare violin laying around, but number two, it would be a purple violin. So she shows up, I play some Bach, and it's like no, I played a pop tune. I had no idea. No idea that it wasn't the violin, it was. I was done with classical music. Ok, I later on found out that there's a statistic on orchestral musicians that after 20, 25 years that you do burn out. I'm like, oh my gosh, bingo, it was like right on time. So it was just so confusing. I learned later there was a name for that it's called a poly crisis and it's when a lot of different crises happen at the same time my son was. His teenage rebellion was pretty intense, my mom having Alzheimer's at the same time and me not knowing that I just described. 

35:59
And whether or not you can see the path back to flow, there always is an undercurrent of possibility and a new way for you to evolve. So I was on a podcast interview about three years ago. A colleague of mine, tyler, and he's like okay, diane, it was kind of at the end of the podcast and he was summarizing and he's like okay, so clearly he referenced the story I told about being in my room when I was 15 years old and what happened when I was in the room when I was 15 years old was I was blasting the music and it wasn't rock and roll, it was violin concerto and I was pretending to be the soloist on stage. I was so in my flow state, I was completely engaged, I was the soloist, I was wearing a long gown, I was like the prima donna right, and so, as he was summarizing, he referenced that story. He says, okay, clearly, you're not 15 in your room blasting the music, after 28 years you're done teaching violin, you don't even play in an orchestra anymore. And he says but you do play your electric violin and you do speak, and you do combine the violin playing with your speaking. And he says, from where I sit, when you're the one speaking, you're the only one on stage and to me it looks like you've become the soloist. Never did I ever see that. And so when he shared that with me, that was the day that I learned from Tyler that when we have like these really intense flow state experiences, why would I remember when I was 15 years old blasting the music, why would I remember that? Why would I even remember that? Because when we shut those ideas down, brush them under the rug and discredit them, is that helping you? Because when you have these visions of yourself, they exist for you to see what you're truly capable of. It took me decades to learn that experience, to learn from that lesson. That's the big deal about when I feel like people really understand. 

37:55
Now you shared one way that you get into flow. We usually have one that's predominant in our life and we also have other ones. You know I've got one for gardening, I've got one for flow strategy for gardening. That's very different. It has to do with nurturing. That's what I'm doing on the inside right. Sometimes it's playing games with the family right Gosh, everyone gets into flow, right. Sometimes it's playing games with the family right Gosh, everyone gets into flow, right. That's group flow. So when you really become aware of how many times you get into flow and you can really define it for yourself, it can really add a lot of richness to your life. And especially if you really notice the big ones, like I had when I was 15, and connect the dots, it's like okay, well, how could that look in my world right now? 

38:36 - Danita Cummins (Host)
Yeah, and I think when I work with clients who are doing starting businesses or nonprofits so that's what I do a lot and then consulting on business growth and strategy, I think what you're saying just the pieces that you're picking up I'm thinking about my client base today. Right, the people, my community of people that I come into contact with or you'll ask them a question, mostly for, like, a solo entrepreneur or person who's in that initial stage of like they want to start a business or nonprofit, they're not really sure they have this burning issue, right, they want to solve a problem or they want to make the world better or whatever that is, and then they're struggling to try to put those pieces together. And so that's often a question, you know, when you're asking people like what are you passionate about? You know these things? You know we say that a lot. There's a hundred books that you can buy, with a checklist and all these questionnaires, but it's hard. 

39:23
A lot of people it's like I don't know what I love, like I don't even know what I like, you know. I mean that's a normal conversation where people are like I've either been inundated with so many things in my life or I'm just moving so fast, trying to like food, clothing, shelter, that, for whatever reason, I haven't really stopped and said do I find joy in this? Like, do I even like it? And so I think I've just been thinking to the people who are listening. Or the people are like I don't even know what I like, diane, I don't even know. If you asked me today what do you enjoy, they would be like I don't know. I'm good at X, y, z. So do you have any thoughts on that? How do you start If you don't know today what your answer is? Like me, like, oh, I play the keyboard and I find it great, but what do you do for that person? How do you help them? That's like I don't even know where to start. 

40:28 - Diane Allen (Guest)
Yeah, this is why I love speaking to both human resources events and leadership events, because this three-step, because, like, as you could see it, we can get granular about it, but it can also really highlight some things that are really big and important to people. I gave everyone listening here today. What's the neuroscience? We talked about the key indicators of being in flow, right. We talked about the impacts of flow right. But when you're walking somebody through this, they don't have that background information that you have. So what you do is you just take those key indicators of flow and once again, I've got this written down in the book and I have got a handout for people but those key indicators. 

41:09
So if you're going to say, and you just try to keep a casual conversation, you say, hey, well, where are you? And use the key indicators Instead of saying where are you when you get into the flow state the most, you can say hey, where are you when you lose sense of time and you just love what you're doing? Where are you when ideas and insights come in from out of the blue, those moments when you get more done in 30 minutes than you had in the last few days? Where are you? Just ask them what are you doing? Then the rest is the same. What are you doing on the outside and the inside, and why is it so meaningful? And it's just another way, another in, to figure out. 

41:40 - Danita Cummins (Host)
I think that's great. It's this human discovery journey that we're all on knowing ourselves. You're right that self-awareness is such a it's so many layers of so many things. I don't know that you ever get there. I think there's the enlightenment that some believe, but I think it's for most of us, or it's a lifelong journey. 

41:56
The interruptions of life are going to continue to come and I just love the way that you're like. You pivoted, but you pivoted to a different place, but you didn't know that on the day that it started. So it's like these underlying themes of your life, these things that you value, the things that bring you joy, are still the same things that bring you joy, but in a different season. They needed to shift, but you don't always know what the shift is. And that's okay too, because I think when we talk about purpose at least for me, in the book I write about the book I've worked with so many people who said what is my purpose? They asked that question and it's from a 15-year-old freshman to my 93-year-old grandmother, who's at home now, who can't leave her house and is still asking what is my purpose? Today, as people have passed away, I've sat on the side of a deathbed, with friends and with other people, and they're asking the question moments before they pass away. So I just see this constant question that everyone's asking at all these different stages of their life and I think for me, purpose academically it's a goal that's personally, meaningful and beyond oneself. It's like three elements of a purpose. But it's like goals within goals, within goals. So we try to answer one question what is my purpose? With one answer. Life's not like that. 

43:07
So you could say Diane was, her purpose was to be a violinist or her purpose was to you know what I mean. It's not as linear as I think we would like it to be, but there is some commonality and some deeper values and who you are and how you show up in the world. That transcends what we do today or tomorrow. I think that's the piece of it we're all looking for in different places of our life. So I think, as you were talking, I was just thinking about your story. You started here at 15 and you had a heart and you had a vision, all looking for in different places of our life. So I think, as you were talking, I was just thinking about your story. You started here at 15 and you had a heart and you had a vision for your life that you didn't really fully understand. And then you worked really, really hard and then life came in these different places and you shifted and moved, but your heart is still the same. I think back to that mom heart thing still a girl inside. No matter what you look like on the outside, we're still those little kids who are sitting in our bedroom dreaming about the hope for the future, for tomorrow. So, anyway, I just think it's so good because you can say from the takeaways for me today there is an approach. It's very disciplined, there's so much science behind it, but you can have a flow strategy and it's okay if you don't have one today, but you can create one. And it's okay if you don't have one today, but you can create one and then you can live in that strategy, you can learn about yourself and use it to really bring you that peace and that joy. So I'm so glad that you came on today to share all that I'm sure there are a thousand yourself first to get into flow. 

44:27 - Diane Allen (Guest)
It inspires others to get into theirs. Simple, simple, simple, simple example. Let's say you have a friend who every Friday night it's homemade pizza night and they talk about it all week. They are so excited and enthusiastic. This week we're going to try this right. There's like this enthusiasm and it might not be all that interesting to you, but one week they invite you over and you are there and you find yourself getting engaged and enthusiastic and like then you can really get into it, just like they are getting into it. 

45:04
And so, according to the Heart Math Institute, the electromagnetic field of your heart reaches out three feet around you. The brain is 60% less than the electromagnetic field of the heart and so everybody in your field, within that three-foot field around you, they sense it. So getting into the music, getting into my flow state, becomes palpable to the people sitting around me. Then that gets transferred to the other people around them because now they're exuding their energy three feet. Now the audience get loops in, so now we have group flow. And so the idea of leading yourself first to lead others gets you into that heart space, getting into those things that make you tick, the things that you feel really enthusiastic about, and that's why I like to say that flow is the energy of influence. 

46:03 - Danita Cummins (Host)
I think that's so good. I'm just thinking about high-performance teams and we talk a lot about that in leadership, like, how do we create high-performing teams? How do we as leaders identify those strengths and then really let people or empower them or equip them to lead from their strengths, to lead from that place, so that makes our teams more effective as we work together. And this ecosystem of people and energy and our organizational ecosystem and our people at the same time, it's this very dynamic system of systems that's moving at the same time and constantly changing and moving, which is why, again, I think it's hard for leaders, because it's not flat. Organizations move and change and grow. They have their own life cycle and they have their own mechanisms. And then you have the people inside those organizations who are constantly moving and changing and growing, and so it's easy to see why it's hard every day. And I love the energy part. Again, back to this whole spirit body. You can tell when someone walks into the room right and they're having a bad day just by the energy that they're releasing. You can even tell on a screen. Today we're pretty good now, post-covid, at being very receptive to read people's body language across Zoom. So I think that's so good. Self-leadership, that's so good. That's why I say, too, you have to lead yourself and others well, and that starts with you being the best version of you, whatever that looks like today. So I think that's so great. 

47:18
I am so incredibly thankful that you came on the show, diane. It has been such a blessing to meet you. Thank you for sharing all of your insights and the love that you have for the world. Thank you, thank you, hey friends. Well, thanks for joining me today on the Interested to Lead podcast. 

47:33
As you can tell, diane is a wealth of information and we probably could have talked for two more episodes, so we'll definitely invite her back on the show and continue to follow her new adventures and speaking and sharing this amazing message with the world. If you want to grab her book, you can find that in the show notes, along with some freebies, that she has to help you get into your flow and build those strategies that we talked about today. That she has to help you get into your flow and build those strategies that we talked about today. And, of course, if you enjoy the Interested to Lead podcast, please click subscribe or like or leave a review. Definitely jump over to danitacumminscom slash podcast and join the Interested to Lead community as we continue to grow and strengthen each other in our faith and our leadership journeys. I hope that you have an amazing day. I'll see you later. Bye.