Heart Over Hustle with Genevieve Piturro

What happens when a simple question from a child completely upends your successful corporate career? Genevieve Peturro never expected her life to take a sudden turn after 12 years of climbing the television industry ladder in New York City. Yet when a little girl in a shelter whispered, "What are pajamas?" everything shifted.

That moment launched Genevieve's extraordinary journey from corporate success to founding the Pajama Program, which has since distributed over 8 million pajamas and books to children across America. Her story challenges us to reconsider how we define success and what truly matters in our leadership journeys.

Through our conversation, Genevieve reveals the profound differences between traditional corporate leadership and leading with love. She dismantles the myth that heart-centered leadership sacrifices effectiveness, showing instead how vulnerability, collaboration, and joy create stronger, more innovative teams. "It's not about control, it's about connection," she emphasizes—a philosophy that transforms workplaces regardless of industry.

For leaders contemplating change, Genevieve offers wisdom from her "jump" into purpose-driven work. She acknowledges the fear that accompanies major transitions but encourages finding cheerleaders who understand your vision. Whether you're considering a dramatic career pivot or simply seeking greater fulfillment in your current role, her practical advice on making "jumps" or "slides" provides a roadmap for authentic living.

Perhaps most moving is Genevieve's insight into how providing comfort changes lives on both sides of the equation. The bedtime rituals many take for granted—clean pajamas, storybooks, a loving presence—offer vulnerable children the essential security and peace they need. Meanwhile, volunteers repeatedly express how their service provides unexpected healing during their own difficult times.

Ready to lead with greater heart and purpose? Connect with Genevieve through her website for her "Lead with Love" tips and a free brainstorming session to explore your next steps. Your greatest impact might be waiting just beyond your comfort zone.

Chapters

• 0:00 A Child's Question That Changed Everything
• 6:47 Corporate Success vs. Heart-Led Purpose
• 13:22 The Pajama Program's Origin Story
• 20:17 Bedtime Comfort: More Than Just Pajamas
• 27:40 Leading With Love as a Mindset
• 36:14 Creating Connection in Leadership
• 44:24 Final Thoughts: Check In With Your Heart

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Have you ever had a moment where a child or someone unexpected asked you a question that changed everything? Well, today, on this episode, we are diving into a powerful story that was prompted with just that thing. It's a thoughtful conversation with Genevieve Peturro. She is the founder of the Pajama Project and the author of Purpose, passion and Pajamas. That's a lot of P words, and we are here today to dive into a legacy of lessons that she has and wants to share with the world. But really it comes down to how we, as leaders, lead from the heart. So I'm excited for today's episode. Grab a cup of coffee or your favorite beverage and let's get started.

Speaker 1: 0:49

Leadership can feel really heavy sometimes, especially when you're carrying vision and people and purpose all on your shoulders all at the same time. You have got a big mission, but the strategy feels fuzzy and your team is looking at you for clarity that you're not sure you actually have. I get it. It's hard. I'm Danita Cummins. I help faith-driven leaders like you find clarity, align with your values and lead with confidence without burning out, because that's never okay. If you're ready to get unstuck, lead your team with courage and to turn that God-given vision into a strategy that really works. I want us to talk. Take the free leadership clarity quiz that I've created today, and I want you to schedule your no-pressure coaching call, because together we can uncover what's holding you back and how to move forward in faith and confidence.

Speaker 1: 1:42

Good morning, interested to Lead friends, I'm Danita Cummins and I am joined by Genevieve Perturro. She is the author of Purpose, passion and Pajamas, which is a mouthful, and I love alliteration, but super exciting. So I'm really glad she's here today on the podcast to talk about her leadership journey and just her kind of her heart journey with starting this nonprofit. She has a wealth of experiences I'm sure there are some amazing and some really hard, and so she can share a lot of the heart behind her story today with us, and then also some really great things that she's working on, some new heart projects that we're going to dive into a little bit today as well. So thank you so much for coming on the show.

Speaker 1: 2:18

How are you today? I'm great. How are you? I am good. I'm really good. I'm excited that it's Friday. I, like most of the people know, I record my podcast on Friday, even though they don't come out on Fridays, but I'm really looking forward to a weekend where life is a little bit slower. So how are you? You're in New York, is that correct?

Speaker 2: 2:36

I am. I think it's spring. It's very rainy, so that's a spring thing, right? So as long as it's not snow, I'm a happy, happy woman.

Speaker 1: 2:45

That's good. Yeah, we had the pollen Armageddon of like 2025. What do you guys do? You have a lot of seasonal pollen and things up there and where you are in New York, we do.

Speaker 2: 2:54

I don't think it doesn't sound as bad as yours, but we do yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:58

Yeah, that's what we're all struggling with, just hoping for more rain. We would appreciate your rain. If you send it south, I will. Where are you? We're in North Carolina.

Speaker 2: 3:05

Oh, okay, I have some friends down there, okay.

Speaker 1: 3:08

Yeah, about six years ago we bought a farm. So we live on the edge of the Uari National Forest so you can kind of see my window. I'm like we're surrounded by pine trees, loblolly and longleaf pine trees, and some hardwoods, but mostly pine. And for my husband and I we grew up in the Midwest so we are just still amazed today at the forest of how of course it's an ecosystem, but just the beauty of it and the intricacy of it, and then also kind of when it comes in full force in spring, we're like the forest is awake, it's definitely letting you know. So we're navigating that in our new season of life.

Speaker 1: 3:43

So the first thing I wanted to just jump into a little bit about the story of how you started the pajama program and I read a few of the different pieces of your story, this journey. You started it with a single question from a child, which I think is such a powerful anchor, because when we look at things, our callings in life, we kind of can come back to this one simple message or this one simple piece. So can you take us back to that moment and how that shifted your perspective on purpose and just kind of where you are today, when you look back and reflect how important was that moment in your life.

Speaker 2: 4:13

It was very important. No one ever asked me about purpose. It was never part of a conversation. I just wanted a good job. That's what my family wanted for me. That's what everyone I went to school with wanted. We wanted good jobs, of course, exciting jobs, and I wanted a job in television and I got that job.

Speaker 2: 4:35

For 12 years I climbed that corporate ladder in New York City and it was exciting. It was crazy workaholic. All of us women wanted to go as high as we could, break the glass ceiling, go up to the top and be in the C-suite. And I was doing all that and I bought a place and I was doing everything that following the rules of how to be successful. So, 12 years into that crazy life, I heard a voice in me, which is the voice that came before the little girl's voice, and it asked me if this is the next 30 years of your life, is this enough? And I realized in moments that if I kept this lifestyle up in 30 years, I'd still be single, I would be tired, I'd have nice things, but there was an emptiness I felt, and so I thought I don't know what to do with this empty.

Speaker 2: 5:21

And all of a sudden I remembered a news clip. I'd seen the social workers taking children out of home they're being hurt in and I called up the shelters and I said is this where police and social workers bring these children? And they said yes. And I said, can I come in and read to them? And they said yes, and that was 25 years ago.

Speaker 2: 5:39

And I went in and read and I saw how broken they were and it broke my heart. But after I would read, they'd go to a room and sleep and that was a cold cold. It wasn't like my mom put us to sleep. You know our beds, our pajamas and stories. These kids were trying to get comfortable in their clothes that didn't fit and that were soiled. And I brought pajamas the next time and the staff thought that was so nice, because no one thinks of pajamas, I'm going to gave them out. And the little girl asked me that question and that question was, she whispered to me, what are pajamas? That changed everything in my brain. It just went collapsing and my heart was breaking more. And that's the beginning of the end of what I thought I wanted and the start of a heart-led, purposeful life.

Speaker 1: 6:26

That is so incredibly powerful, I think, for me Maybe I shared when we first talked. We have an outreach center that I have been doing for 15 years. We started the nonprofit piece about I guess it's been eight years now and that journey of starting a nonprofit and doing the things and in this season of my life I see that more and more. Like you said, it's like we were climbing this ladder to where, where are we going and how do we define success as people? And I've lost a lot of people in my life in the last five years that are really close to me and so I've over and over sat on the side of the hospital bed or closed out bank accounts and estates and watching things being sold in boxes for pennies on the dollar. And it's just this very real piece of my life where I'm like wait, what? What are we doing? What are we doing with the time that we have? What are we chasing? Why am I so exhausted?

Speaker 1: 7:18

And do you feel like you said that because you talk about you had this career and you were doing all the things? I like to say I had a big girl purse and a big girl job with big girl shoes and a big girl hairdo, I had all the big girl things. So you were doing the big girl stuff and then you had that feeling you know, is this enough? So were there other early signs, other than that moment where you felt like that in your heart, like where you felt like you weren't fully aligned to your career, or maybe there was something else? Was there other things that you noticed throughout the day, other than just that one still small voice?

Speaker 2: 7:47

No, that voice. But my father came off the boat from Italy and my mom was also a traditional Italian and that was their first born. So my parents expected me to get married and have children, grandchildren, and I know my dad expected that and they would try to talk up that option as they saw me trying to get good jobs, Maybe because I was the oldest and I felt like I'd helped take care of the other three that I wanted out. You know I wanted to be a success as the world saw, but all that came rushing back like I think I missed something. What we had growing up was precious. I loved it and it was nothing against them, even though they felt it was at some point. So, looking back, I know I just shoved their ideas to the side, but for me I never had a doubt. I thought I always knew what I wanted.

Speaker 1: 8:37

That's so good. Yeah, I can see that too. That makes sense and in a traditional sense. Just, I don't know, culture shifts. I mean, I can even look back from my grandmother's life and how she grew up and the culture and the environment, like you said, and what jobs are available for her and education as compared to my mom, as compared to me, to my daughter, so, yeah, so I think there are a lot of shifts too. We see, as women in the marketplace, as we go across in the last 50 years. So it is definitely a lot of tradition and culture and things kind of also under the surface.

Speaker 1: 9:08

So you left this structure, I would assume, title. We talk about a lot about that right from an identity perspective, but then the structure and security of corporate America and this job that you had built and then you launched off into this new nonprofit, this new world. What advice would you give to a leader who's feeling called to pivot? And we'll talk a little bit more about that, hopefully, as we go, but I would assume that when you're doing that, there was this did you struggle with fear or did you struggle with any of those insecurities and how did you overcome those in the beginning? Yes, everything.

Speaker 2: 9:37

I struggled with everything because I couldn't talk to anybody. That purpose is a word we're comfortable with. Fulfillment meaning not taking a job because it doesn't fulfill us. Nobody spoke like that 20-some years ago, but it's okay now. We expect to be fulfilled. We expect our leaders to understand that we need to feel like we're contributing and that we are choosing where to work. We're not just grateful for any job.

Speaker 2: 10:07

So I would say it's a different world and I coach a lot of people and I help with people who want to make a jump or a slide, and I help either way. A jump is clearly what I did. You just take a jump. You haven't planned as much as you could have and I have lots of tips on that. But also a slide works too, because a lot of people can be fulfilled if they just bring in that piano playing, that musical piece. They don't have to be a singer If they want to be and they want a chance at all. Go, I'll support that and we'll make a path. But sometimes just making room in your life for what you've pushed on the back burner, that fills your life enough to feel like you have it all.

Speaker 1: 10:52

I love that. I say crawl, walk, run. So I'm a huge advocate for the try before you buy is what I like to say, and I do coaching and mentoring, a lot more mentoring than coaching. But and then we have four kids that we've launched three into the world, and so just being a mom and watching them struggle with that, okay, how can we get you out there so you can try this one thing, knowing that as soon as you walk out the door, life changes. And then we grieve all of the unmet expectations that we didn't know that we were holding. And then we think, oh, I failed. And you're like no, you didn't fail, you just you have to start again. So I love that that. You said it's either a jump or a slide. I love that. I love that. A jump or a slide. So well, do you want to dig into kind of like you said, I have some advice for that the person that maybe wants to take the jump?

Speaker 2: 11:52

Because the slide one, I think my head and what you mentioned before, the fear and the worry that was eating at me, and that was really, really difficult and I think if I had started sharing earlier I would have found my cheerleaders, but I didn't. So the first person I went to knocked me down, told me I was crazy. Why would I do that? I'd worked 12 years she had two in a big organization and I clammed up again for another six months because I thought I know I have no answers. It sounds ridiculous. Quit a job, a high-paying job where there's a future to give pajamas to children and I have a mortgage. Of course. When you say that to yourself you say am I crazy? And then you think, well, maybe I'm not crazy. And you say to someone else and they say you're crazy.

Speaker 2: 12:34

You go back into that retreat mode and it took me another six months to meet a man who turned out to be my husband I married him who said he understood heart voice and he said go for it. So I think the earlier you start to tell people that you trust, the sooner you'll find those cheerleaders. And the minute you find cheerleaders you feel like superwoman. That's the number one thing that I tell people to do, to be honest, to share it. And again, it's a very different, better world in that respect now than it was 25 years ago. So, but still I get people's trepidation about actually breathing those words to someone who sees you as a corporate success.

Speaker 1: 13:13

That's so true. It's interesting we're having this conversation today because my husband actually today is his last day in corporate America and he resigned to go after this or North Carolina, so during Hurricane Helene. We've both worked in military communications for decades and so he's very good. He's a RF and network engineer and he's just very talented. He's a creative and he designs things and he creates things.

Speaker 1: 13:37

So, all that to say, he shortly after created a solution, a mobile communication solution, as a response to Hurricane Helene, and that was exactly what it was. He was like if one person's life could be saved, then this matters. And so he's actually just today's his last day. So we woke up this morning and we were like, okay, well, it's resignation day. To your point, I think I'm okay with the, we'll work through it. The daily bread, we'll have our daily bread. But it is almost that insanity feel insane like why am I walking away from a really good corporate job where it's a guaranteed paycheck, where I know that I've got all these things to go after a dream? I can personally empathize with the person on the other side of the microphone that might be going through that today.

Speaker 2: 14:20

It's a big hurdle, I get it. We base so much of our worth on what other people think. And also, we've invested. How many years? I invested 12 years. Some people have invested 20 or more, and now they're thinking about making a change. Not only is it preposterous, sometimes they might think, but are there skills you don't have? Are you going back to school? Are you starting an entry level? I mean, it's all so daunting, I get it. But only thing that I can say that I know affects people is you will never believe how good your life can be. It changes what you feel like when you wake up. It changes the people in your life. It changes so much and you feel like you own yourself. You just have to close your eyes and feel like what that would feel like compared to, maybe, the jail. You feel like you're in to get the courage to say okay, let's do it. And if I'm coaching you, I'm there 24-7. I am Because you can slide back, it's so easy to and it's worth going through the darkness, the light's there.

Speaker 1: 15:22

That's so good. Yeah, Because you're right, it is easy to fear. Right? Is really what you're saying Fear, fear of so many things that we don't even. They just bubble up and then you're like, oh, what is this when I mean? Fear is a real thing, that's so true. So when you transitioned from corporate America to leading this nonprofit starting and leading this nonprofit, and so what leadership lessons did you take with you? And then, what things did you have to leave behind or unlearn that you found?

Speaker 2: 15:48

Wow this is the perfect question. I just wrote an article for a website asking me to write my philosophy. My mindset is. Leading with love is a mindset and I do a weekly email to subscribers leading with love tips from a friend, and I wrote the story on this exact answer to your question.

Speaker 2: 16:08

When I started to lead pajama program, obviously I was leading myself, then there were volunteers and then there were staff. Now I grew up with bosses, with rules, and, like most people in the eighties, I sat in a meeting. The boss made the rules, the boss dictated what assignments you had and in the meeting, mostly we were quiet and he or she was talking In my case, lots of he's were talking and we went away and we did the job. We came back to, hopefully, the job. That was what I expected to be like as a boss in that business. I was striving for that corporate office and I thought that's the boss's way, that's it when I was leading pajama program, I think because it was a heartfelt move. Now, anything you are doing even if you go from being an accountant to saying I really want to be a veterinarian, or I really want to be an actuary, or I want to be a veterinarian, or I really want to be an actuary or I want to be anything. It doesn't own a chain of grocery stores. The fact that you are in touch with what your inner soul says is your purpose and you want to do. That's heartfelt.

Speaker 2: 17:16

My work in the TV business was not heartfelt and if I had made a move to do anything it would have been because my heart was telling me to. So this is not a nonprofit scenario only. If you're making a move, it's because something in you is desperate to express itself and that's your heart and your soul. So I was leading with my heart and it was a mix of joy because I would just be me. I was being natural in the answers and collaborating.

Speaker 2: 17:45

I was free to say I have no idea, do you have any ideas? My bosses would never say that and I don't think I would have ever said that. If I had made it to that top corner office, I wouldn't have looked at my team and said I have no ideas, do you have any ideas? But here I am and you know what. They had ideas and some of them were better than mine and some of them most of them propelled us forward and we were successful and we are successful and I think it took me a while to realize that it was and is heartfelt and meeting with love, and we see how many leaders now are embracing it, and also because people are tired of the boss. It's not a leader. So leading with love is compassionate, it's collaborative, it's inspiring. Now, I had maybe one boss that was on the border of inspiring, but the rest didn't inspire me. They more intimidated me.

Speaker 1: 18:46

That's very interesting. I have a lady I'm working with right now mentoring and she just expressed the same concern. So I think it's interesting the connection. There's probably more people out there struggling with that than maybe I've thought about. But she was in corporate America working in this very directive, authoritative leadership styles. That's what she learned leadership and now she's moved over into a nonprofit and it's the heart space, like you said, is more open, because now we're doing heart things in this nonprofit. But she's struggling to try to figure out how do I lead in this environment and who am I? Because the model that I saw, which is very directive and this piece, it doesn't fit here and I'm struggling to try to figure out what skills do I need to learn as a leader, what things do I need to work through. So I think it's a very interesting conversation and, like you're saying, it's really back to the doesn't have to be nonprofit or corporate or in the government space. I work with a lot of military people and in the government spaces the heart piece.

Speaker 1: 19:50

I think that's a really great universal connection. That's really really good and I think if you can connect to those pieces, like you said before, it doesn't have to be all or none, because the reality is we have food, clothing, shelter that we all have to have, and so I think that's the piece too. I think we struggle with the well, I wanted to be a rock star and I can't do anything and you're like no, there's so many other ways that you can volunteer or love, or grow or let your heart and your soul express itself in the world without being so restrictive. So we didn't start with this. But do you want to tell everybody what the pajama program is? Because we just jumped right into your story but I didn't give you a chance to kind of tell.

Speaker 2: 20:32

What did the nonprofit turn into and what is it today? Well, I started bringing bags and bags of new pajamas and new books, storybooks, to the shelters because I knew that, instinctively knew, and in time I realized I instinctively knew the storybooks would take their mind off their fears. These little ones were so afraid being taken from a place where, even though it was hurting you, the only place you knew, to the strange place, not knowing where you're going. I can't imagine the trauma. But I was hoping that storybooks would ease their minds looking at the pictures. They listened when I read the stories, even though some of them cried and they were afraid. There's something just magically in a storybook pictures and the words. If they can read them, that's soothing. And then, of course, the pajamas, and I gave the ones that would fit each child. They were soft and warm and clean. So I think that comfort piece was what made the difference in what I saw in them from the moment I entered to then seeing them in pajamas with a book, holding onto a book after I've read one.

Speaker 2: 21:36

So that became addictive for me to keep bringing new pajamas and new books and people wanted to help. So that's how it started and I said you know what? That's all I can manage A new pair of pajamas and a new book. I was. Credit card bills were crazy. They were taking credit card away from me. I said there's no way I can do anything else. And then I started chipping when people heard what I was doing and that was an expense that added to my financial ruin or so to speak. So I didn't realize that staying in my little niche of new pajamas and new books, that's it was so special, but it was because it was easy for other people to help me to do. And we did that for a long time and it grew and I transferred my executive director. I passed the baton after 20 years of being executive director to Jamie, who was a president of our board, who said if you ever do want to go and speak and inspire people to listen to their heart and you want to write your books, please put my name to the board. And we did and she was voted in.

Speaker 2: 22:31

So she has grown a little bit, not too far off from what we do, but including the bedtime routine, because none of us get sleep right Now. It's a crazy world that we've all discovered. We're losing sleep. It's affecting everything and the children who've been through trauma and who are living with family or no family experience it in such a detrimental way because it's going to stay with them from a child through their life that stain of fear at nighttime and trauma, and so they're afraid to close their eyes for a lot of reasons. So incorporating that downtime and teaching whoever's taking care of them family or caregivers the necessary time with pajamas and a book that a child needs to find a relaxing place is so important. So it's about the bedtime, love and the comfort and security and peace, and we all seek that. So we're trying to make sure that the children get as much as possible.

Speaker 1: 23:37

Yeah, I think that's so powerful. I think about that too. With our kids growing up, bedtime was very much an intentional space and we were in the military so there was a lot of unknown, unpredictable life, but bedtime just always became this very special, very intentional space like getting your jammies and all the routine and the structure. Obviously, as a mom, you know because I was alone a lot when my husband was gone or when I was in the military deploying things. So I think the thing that we often miss, like you said, is the comfort and the safety and the security and the stability that children really need and how important and powerful that is. And when it's gone or when it's missing, it's just one more element that you don't really consider. We just kind of get up and we do our thing and we don't realize all the things that they're missing and how detrimental and lasting I think that is.

Speaker 2: 24:28

And one more thing that you know as a mom and I learned I am not a mom I don't feel like I am on the same level as you and as moms that's a very different, more significant role. So I think that's beautiful, but that bonding at bedtime is missing for the children most of the time. Night, when I would climb into bed and my mom would come to each of the four of on a small surface in the clothes that didn't fit and they're crying Where's that? Mommy's here, and mommy will be here tomorrow morning. And if we didn't feel well, the four of us still kid as adults. We would whisper mom and from downstairs she would run upstairs.

Speaker 2: 25:27

And that bonding I've heard from so many of our supporters over the years. They would tell me stories about what their child revealed, their fear. Or tomorrow I have a test and I didn't study, mom, I'm really afraid. Or worse. Or just I love you. I feel really happy today, mom, I'm so glad I got an A. Or I'm so glad I got a puppy. Or so glad I helped you make dinner. I mean those moments they support us or in the worst cases, for some of these kids, they last that loneliness. So I learned how precious bedtime is, and so I was just so grateful to have an opportunity to provide some comfort, even if I was invisible. We were all invisible to the child, and a box arrived. It still said to them somebody cares.

Speaker 1: 26:14

Yeah, that you matter. That's so powerful, and I think it is. It's just such a powerful space because we look at the suffering of the world and we think, well, what can I do with the $3 or three days that I have and you were able to with a team? I say that because I totally understand being a founder and starting something at two o'clock in the morning and your brain is squirreling and you're like I have to stop the pain and I don't know how. And then I say very much for my faith. One person gets brought in and another person gets brought in. And so now I say to volunteers when they come I have no idea why you're here, and I just say that to them in the openness of like I don't know why God sent you, I don't know what your heart is saying. I don't know your heart story. I don't know what your soul is looking for. I know none of those things. My job is to steward you and your heart for the time in which you're entrusted to me. But that's a partnership. I need you to meet me halfway. That's you saying to God use me. Yeah, that's right, open hands. I have no idea. But and why are you bringing these people to me because I don't know what to do with them, and there's always someone who has a new tool or a new idea that gets us to the next level.

Speaker 1: 27:17

So I got feedback just yesterday from a guy who's on our board, who's a great, a wonderful mentor to me now and supporting us, the thing he said which was so, so sweet to me. He says I said thank you for everything that you do, mike, thanks for everything. And he said thanks for giving me an opportunity. And so I think, just from one founder to another, thanks for giving the opportunity to people, thanks for being brave enough to put yourself out there with the $3 and the three days that you had to just be like I'm going to help this one kid, and if I can just help this one, then two kids, then four, then however many, so it's been 25 years. You said 25 years kids, then four, then however many, so it's been 25 years. You said 25 years. So how many numbers do you guys have? Statistics turned to how many families you've helped, or whatever?

Speaker 2: 28:00

More than 8 million pajamas and books have been distributed around the US in 40-some chapters, and it's growing and it's a beautiful thing. I want to say back to your volunteer experience. You hit it on the head. I never realized how much we were helping donors and volunteers, and I see why he said thank you for the opportunity. People want to help. They don't know how until they find what touches their heart. Then they're like oh, I got to go there, that's calling me.

Speaker 2: 28:27

But I can tell you and you probably know this or you will we would have children and we would have volunteers come to read to the children and we would count on those volunteers. Right, we didn't. We didn't want 12 children and two volunteers. It was heartbreaking, right? So we'd all make it work. I can't tell you how many times a volunteer would pull me aside and say I almost didn't come today. You wouldn't believe what's going on in my life, but I forgot everything in this hour and a half. I forgot everything. Thank you. The first time I heard that I didn't even get it when I got it. That's the opportunity that's as meaningful as the work you set out to do is how you are affecting people who want to help.

Speaker 1: 29:05

That's so good. It's interesting you say that because we just talked about that last week, I think on we all have all of our own stuff and I think that's a big part of not stepping out in faith, not trying. I wrote a book last year not about my book, but about promise over purpose, but it basically is like you know, god tells us to love him with our heart, soul, mind and strength, which will take a lifetime. That's a lifetime journey period and to love your neighbor as yourself, and you can do that in a billion different ways. And so we stay over here and being overwhelmed by our life is completely valid, and some people are carrying really hard, heavy things, like you said. But there is such an opportunity for you to just show love to one other person, and it doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to be grand, like you're saying. It can have such an impact in just a very small, tiny piece of just showing up. So I think that's really powerful.

Speaker 2: 29:56

I'm anxious to say, because you are hitting all the parts of my heart that are so excited to be awakened after climbing the corporate ladder and I'm just feel like they're so free. But you're touching on so many things and what we're talking about it has to do with business, not just nonprofit. We're not talking about warm, fuzzy stuff that we volunteer or we start nonprofits to do. We're talking about relationships in an office of million-dollar companies where people are making salaries and the more they make, more power to them. As long as this is the environment that we're speaking of, that they embrace, that they nurture there, that our supporters, our donors, are their teams. Their purpose can be to make a box, it can be to sell a potato chip. People love these things, they use these things, they're filling a need. It doesn't have to be a nonprofit, it just has to be heart-led.

Speaker 1: 30:50

That's how I feel that's so important. I think that that's the whole reason why I started the podcast was because I feel like we are entrusted with the care and safekeeping of other people, and that is such an important piece, right, I think, other than parenting, it's a privilege, right? Yeah, exactly, and so you're right. People bring all of their selves to the workplace every day. They bring their good and their bad, and they're happy and they're sad, and the human standing in front of you matters, like you're saying. It doesn't have to be a nonprofit or you're saving lives every day, but that person that's in front of you still matters, and they want the heart connection. Like, I think that's the other part too.

Speaker 1: 31:23

I learned years ago in the military when I was working. I have this optimistic perception that everyone wants to do good in the world, and it was just like they genuinely do want to be successful. They want to make a difference. They're just struggling to figure out how they need to turn left or you need to turn right. I just have a lot more empathy for teams that are struggling with that stuff, like you're saying. So people really do. Potato chip making does matter in the world.

Speaker 2: 31:48

It does. It's not about control, it's about connection, and I read that somewhere. I'm trying to remember if it was someone's quote or I just read it in some kind of a description. But that was exactly right. It's not about control, it's about connection, and that's what you inspire and that's how people will want to support and follow you and be on your team.

Speaker 1: 32:08

That's right, yeah, but there's a balance, I think, as a leader, right. So I would like your thoughts on this in terms of how do you scale this? Like the mission, the heart work, but then you still have to implement this structure and strategy and the business mindset. So, as you left corporate and went and started the nonprofit and then grew, this team has grown. How does a leader do both? What do they? How do they do?

Speaker 2: 32:28

both. The person I look to and I wish I could say I knew him is Richard Branson. I quote him a lot. I do a lot about joy and love in the workplace and he and his daughter freely talk about the fun that they have with their teams and purposely make things fun and plan fun things. And I think none of that takes away from everybody knowing you are the leader. But everybody will take away that you are human and that you wanted to connect with them and have fun and laugh. And it's okay to spend an afternoon, no last minute, with a free lunch and monopoly or charades or something. How wonderful is that?

Speaker 2: 33:10

So there are goals and sometimes in that atmosphere of a surprise joyful event or just a let's all have coffee or let me take an hour with groups of people for this month of July and get to know everyone, nobody forgets you're the leader. You can take all the opportunity you want to talk about goals, but you can ask also. I am open to ideas. You can say this is how I've set it out, but Lord knows, I'm not the only one with an idea and I would welcome because if you are here it means we believe you can contribute something and feel free anytime my door is open.

Speaker 2: 33:51

None of that says walk all over me, I'm not really taking leadership seriously. It's saying I have enough self-confidence in my people and new and rising stars that you have ideas that are worth millions and if you bring them to us and you share your opinions, you're going to shine a light on things that some of us are just so focused on one way we don't see. It's about not being afraid to be vulnerable. It's about not being afraid to lose control. It's about not being afraid that people won't see you as the big boss and bow down. That's going away, and I think that that's healthy. I agree with you too, and I think the other thing that that creates is it creates ownership.

Speaker 1: 34:32

I think with you too, and I think the other thing that that creates is it creates ownership. I think, like you said, from the person. Now they're invested, and you want employees to be invested in your business. You want employees that are committed to the mission and the cause, even if it is building tank engines or whatever they are, but you want people committed to your mission of the organization, and when you give them a voice, then, yeah, they're the best people who know how to do their job better, anyway, we would hope because they're the ones on the front lines every day. So, yeah, I think that's so good. I can see that too. This inclusive leadership. It's getting a little bit more. I won't say common, but it's definitely the language right is being presented in the world.

Speaker 2: 35:14

But it's also on us. It's on people who are being hired, people who are looking for jobs, and I coach a lot of people who are new to the working world and I always say you are worth every penny that you want to make. You are worth if you're going for a job. You are worth it. And you can say can you tell me what you do for the community? You can ask questions, you can hold the company accountable. You can say can you tell me what you do for the community? You can ask questions, you can hold the company accountable. You can say this is where I feel I can make a contribution and I really want to join a company where I can grow and I can be creative in this way. Speak what you want. It's your decision.

Speaker 2: 35:50

I remember going for a job, thinking oh, I hope I get the job. I hope I get the job. I hope I get the job. I hope I get the job. I hope I get the job. Nevermind, I hope it's a good job for me. I hope I like it. It is being reversed. I just think we just also need to be mindful of how we present ourselves. So it isn't coming off as selfish, but it's coming off. As I'm willing to be a team player, I just want to make sure you understand where I am. Otherwise neither of us is going to be happy in three months.

Speaker 1: 36:16

I say that a lot to you. With people I'm like we're not victims in the 21st century workforce really. I mean we do have layoffs and I have some friends who are working through the, I say, the doge debacle right now, that work for the federal government in different fashions. So I don't say that in a like a lightly, just skip over it, but because things do happen to us that are outside of our control always. But we do have much more of a voice, like you said, and we do have that ability. It's a contractual agreement.

Speaker 1: 36:42

I kind of come to it like I'm going to give this much for a certain amount of money, obviously, but I just want to make sure it's a reciprocal relationship and we don't often think of that as employment that you do have a voice that you can say I don't align with the values. I think it goes a lot back to values too. We don't often know what our values are. Like you're saying, you kind of get to these places in your life where maybe there's a heart moment that sparks you or a tragedy or something hard, or you're sitting on the bathroom floor like I don't want to do this anymore, but I feel like there's a big disconnect between what we as our heart and soul, what we value, and being able to find that, to put words around it and then you can measure does this opportunity align with my values? Well, I don't even know what my values are because I've never even asked. So I think it's so important to your point because then we'd maybe hopefully have a lot less grumbly people.

Speaker 2: 37:33

It's also work, life and health balance. We can see health. We can see the issues that are coming up because we've been overworked or we're not speaking our piece or we feel, I believe, that how you feel dictates so much of your physical ailments and depression, and especially the kids these days are having troubles. It's just when you join a group, any kind of a group you have to make sure that you'll find ears that understand health, life, work balance and that it's supported, that you aren't expected to work as a maniac, unless you know that it's presented to you and you are all in. But I think it's fair for somebody who's looking for a job to say this is my situation. I will give 100%. I want to know have you structured anything about work-life health balance? You know, is there something you can tell me about that experience you've had, or is it relevant here? Is it a conversation in this organization?

Speaker 1: 38:37

No, I think that's super helpful and I appreciate that you give language, because sometimes we don't know. You're like I don't know how would I even say that? So, because, again, it's not. These are the five questions I want to ask on my next job interview. But you're right, it's so much a part of who we are and it affects us, whether we know it or not, in a very big, deep way, and I think that's a big piece of it too. And then just you, you're willing to accept that. So I think that's the piece I go back to.

Speaker 1: 39:01

Sometimes we accept positions or accept jobs, or we're in situations and we don't know, and expectation management. Again we get in and we're like this isn't what I thought it was going to be, but we do always have a voice. So I think that's super important. Is there any advice that you have around how to rally a team around a vision that flows from your personal calling? You had to kind of do that from the ground up and then now you're doing a lot of coaching and teaching and you're writing. So what advice do you have for people? This is probably a selfish question for myself, but how do we do that to really get a team around this vision that you have or that someone has.

Speaker 2: 39:35

Well, I think it's important for a leader to share his or her story and it's a lot of times emotional and share it that way. Share it that way. Share it that way. If you have to stop and collect yourself because something is sensitive to you or something happened, take the moment, let people see how this has touched you, because they will feel it. And also it's important to know why the other person is drawn to you in the first place or to the job in the first place. So ask it's good to ask in an interview, it's good to ask if the leader has five minutes or when a leader has a lunch break with the new hires what excites you about being here or what's your situation and how can we help fill whatever void there is. If there's a feeling of some kind of common ground whether it's the purpose of the organization or if it's changing lives in a certain way, or if it's people first and products will follow they have to decide what is the common thread between the leader's vision and each employee. There's got to be something more than I just need a job. I mean. I guess we'll always have that amount of people, but it should be the least amount of people with that reason for being there than most, and I think that that is a part of the interview process.

Speaker 2: 40:57

Why are you here? And it could be I'm not interested in your product, but I love that you support this. Tell me why you support this and then the leader can say you know, I had a child who this or one of our employees, this or always loved pets, always loved something and throw it right back. Why does that touch you? And you'll hear a personal story. You know I do retreats and things and that's such an important question and I usually ask share a story about you and your best friend. And then I'll say and that can include your pet, and things come out. You know I'm not asking you about necessarily your wife or certain specifics, but tell me about a story of you and your best friend or you and your pet. And that's when people get soft and heartfelt and that's the time to do that, that's the time to share that.

Speaker 1: 41:46

Yeah, that's so good. Well, do you want to talk a little bit about your new heart project that you're working on and how we can help support you or the different things that you're doing? I know we didn't get a chance to dive into that, but I know that's a big part of what is important to you right now.

Speaker 2: 41:58

Yeah, it's sharing that. Leading with love is a mindset. You wake up every morning and one of the tips is you wake up and you say how can I connect people today? And you walk in with that intention and you trust your heart. And maybe it's the day when you say we're going to play charades. It sounds crazy, but free lunch and we're going to play charades today. Or you find someone who can play the guitar. You see what somebody is a golf pro and you say listen, you know there are people here love to hear you play or love some golf tips. Why don't we schedule a Friday every month and we'll find the experts here and we can say so-and-so. Anybody want to learn about golf. We're going to have one of our own teaches tricks about golf or play some music or something.

Speaker 2: 42:46

But if you open to that kind of a relationship with your team, the ideas are just going to come. They're just going to come and, like I said, you can use that opportunity when people are laughing and playing games or listening to music to say we're a little behind on our goal. Everybody, I could use some help. I've exhausted all my resources. None of us on the A team. This is where we can figure it out.

Speaker 2: 43:12

I know you guys are on the front lines Got any ideas and it's a very different atmosphere. It's a very open, inclusive atmosphere to get work done, trying to find someone that you don't know well and say, why don't we have a cup of coffee? And I bet you most people would be thrilled and also intimidated that the top person is asking. But that will take down barriers too and open doors. And I have a friend, kelly, and she runs a company and whenever there's a new hire she writes a personal welcome card. How great is that? I mean I would love to have gotten a welcome card with my name on it, signed by my top boss. Isn't that a great idea? I told her I'm going to use that. I love that idea.

Speaker 1: 43:52

That's so good, the little things that really do make a difference. Yeah, we used to get birthday cards from the general and that was like handwritten notes from the general and the SES. You know they would send you when I worked with the army off for a while and that was super cool because you have like a little letter on your desk from the general and it was a handwritten note. He was like hey, danita, I appreciate what you did on this project or whatever, whatever, and you're just like man. Okay, it does matter. It's a big organization with 3000 people in this building, but my little piece of contribution actually does matter every day.

Speaker 2: 44:21

So was seen. Yeah, it was acknowledged. Yes, yeah, I'm seen. That's right, I know that was beautiful Kudos. To the general yeah, very true, I learned a lot of our lessons come from those of you who speak and write about love in business. You don't get any more down to business than when you're fighting for your life.

Speaker 1: 44:56

That's very true. I think I've seen that. I say that leadership, the way I see leadership, is not what we would think of the world. It's the silent warriors who are bonded. Yeah, they're the quiet guys in the world. You know, it's the silent warriors who are Bonded. Yeah, they're the quiet guys in the back. We'll give literally their life for you. It's just a powerful thing to see. Yeah, well, I know you said you have like a gift. You're working on a couple of new projects. Do you wanna share a little bit about that and then how people can connect with you and continue this conversation?

Speaker 2: 45:22

Sure, anybody who's thinking about changing, sliding, jumping, whatever, looking for fulfillment in work, certainly contact me for a free hour brainstorming. I can listen, I can offer whatever I can do. You can find that on my website. Just sign up for my lead with love, tips from a friend, all those emails, and I'm happy to help any way I can. Teaching and speaking on leading with love, that's so good.

Speaker 1: 45:49

It's so needed in the world today. I can't imagine we need any less love from the lens of leadership for sure in the world that we live in today. So it has been a pleasure and a blessing to spend time with you.

Speaker 2: 46:00

Thank you so much oh, I feel the strain and thank you for your service. I wanted to say that. Make sure I said that to you, thank you, thank you very much and to your husband, congratulations to him too.

Speaker 1: 46:09

Thanks, I'll let you know if it's a jump or a slide, we'll keep updated, but I'll put all the links in the show notes, and it has been a pleasure. Please let me know if we can ever help with you. So thank you. Hey. Friends, thanks for joining me today on my call.

Speaker 1: 46:30

I had an amazing time listening and learning from Genevieve, and so here's the question I want to ask you as we wrap up today when was the last time that you checked in with your heart about your leadership journey? I know we talk about the heart thing a lot on this podcast because it's super important, friend, and so today I hope that you learned a lot of lessons and got to be inspired by Genevieve's story, the challenges, the fear that she overcame in order to bring this powerful message to the world, and I hope that encourages you and strengthens you and gives you hope and challenges you a little bit to move outside your comfort zone Because, as we often say, you only have one life to live, right? So I just want to remind you keep showing up every day, even when it hurts, because you matter. Okay, friends, have an amazing day. I'll see you later. Bye.